There is support for book chapters, though the workflow isn't
obvious. Book Chapter references must be created within book
references. To do this, create a book entry, then in the right
sidebar, click the "+" icon where it says "Chapters." This will
create a blank chapter entry. Double click it, and the blank
chapter entry will open. There you can add your chapter-level
metadata and a PDF.
Currently chapters aren't fully searchable, and there are some
other issues with adding them to collections and whatnot, but these
are on the developers' radar, so hopefully they'll be cleaned up
soon.
While I understand the way you are trying to manage book
chapters, it doesn't necessarily work as intended. One issue I am
having is that I already have a number of chapters in Papers (since
it was a convenient place to keep them). There does not seem to be
an easy way to change an existing entry (defaulted to a journal
article) to a book chapter. I can change it to a book, recode the
entry for the correct information for the book, and then add the
chapter, but then I have the problem of the PDF being associated
with the book, rather than the chapter. Plus, it has required me to
do a lot of unnecessary coding. I like the idea of associating
chapters with books, but it should be optional.
Support Staff4 Posted by matias on 09 Mar, 2011 03:17 PM
Hi there
We've received a lot of feedback regarding the book chapter
workflow in Papers2. You are not alone, we are going to improve on
this in a future update.
Okay workflow is enormously convoluted and prone to messing things up. I think book chapters should be treated as individual documents from the same source. Currently it seems that the Book is a single document and any additional chapters are like supplemental PDFs.
Also -- why is there a separate field in the Book Chapter Edit dialogue for "publication"? When I entered the book title there, Papers automatically created a new "Journal" with the Book title!
In light of the fact that you're going to revisit book chapters,
at this point do you even recommend anyone use this feature in the
current 2.0 form? In other words, if presently I put chapters of an
edited book under the title of a book, and you then update the
software, might there be problems...is it better to just ignore
this feature for now?
If I import a bunch of book chapters, how do I convert them to
be attached to a book collection from within Papers? Or do I have
to manually attach them, one-by-one?
I can't change the title of a chapter. For example, I added my
book chapter, which it named "Chapter 1" automatically. However,
the chapter is NOT chapter 1 and in fact I have no idea which
number it is. It has a title though and that's what's important. I
try to change the name by replacing the "Chapter 1" text, but when
I click done, the changes are reverted back to the default title
"Chapte 1". This is stupid.
There also appears to be a bug where you click on the reveal
arrow for Chapter 2, but it actually opens and edits the info for
Chapter 1. I'm sure this will get fixed soon.
I've had the problem Shaun is describing with articles, etc., as
well as book chapters, and, in fact, it occurs in all fields. About
15% of the time, changing the title, author, etc., of an entry
won't "stick" when you click "Done." The problem seems to be worst
when attempting to delete the contents of a field without replace
it with something else - the system wants there to be something in
the field, so it keeps the old data that I just tried to
delete.
I just wanted to weigh in with my 2 cents about suggestions for
updating how Book Chapters are used. I don't know how others use
book chapters when reading and citing, but here's what I have. And
it's probably very similar to others in psychological science.
I have lots of single chapters from books. I very seldom have
multiple chapters from the same book. And the vast majority of time
the chapter authors are not the same as the book authors (i.e. an
edited volume). I treat my book chapters similarly to a journal
article, just with the relevant citation information different. And
very different from a book, which I normally only include for
citation purposes--I don't have any full book PDFs.
So it would be helpful to have:
1) A separate section from Books called Book Chapters, as I
treat these as very separate resources.
2) Ability to add all of the information needed to cite that
chapter in the inspector. And the ability to search that
information uniquely. And to export it uniquely.
3) A section under Sources called Books, which would list all of
the books I have chapters in. Here I could find all of the chapters
I might have from the same book, with the option to merge them
(like in Journals) to share citation data, and view all the
chapters from that book (in the inspector like for Authors).
This latter option of using Books within Sources, rather than
having chapters within Books in the Library, would really be
helpful to many people I think. Because I want to VIEW how my
chapters are nested within books, not CREATE chapters nested within
books.
17 Posted by Norman French on 21 Mar, 2011 03:14 AM
Just wanted to second what januse72 said. I would love it if I
could just select "book chapter" under the "book" menu. This would
be especially useful if the book titles would then auto-complete.
Speaking of which, is there a plan to bring back author
auto-complete? I now have a John Michael von Loen and a John
Michael von Loën... very confusing.
It looks like this might be supported, or maybe will be soon? In
the tutorial "All about metadata and matching", it appears that a
"book chapter" type option exists - the tutorial adds a pdf of a
book chapter, then goes to the publisher's website and imports the
metadata. The type listed at the top of the metadata pane then
changes from "book" to "book chapter". There is also a confirmation
at the bottom of the metadata pane that asks whether the chapter is
part of a book. Is this currently available in 2.0.1? It didn't
work that way when I tried, but I also didn't have a book chapter
whose metadata I could find on a publisher's website - maybe it
only works if the metadata is imported in a certain format? Or is
this a new feature that we will be seeing soon?
charles closed this discussion
on 25 Mar, 2011 07:05 AM.
charles re-opened this discussion
on 25 Mar, 2011 07:05 AM
20 Posted by Capital C Charles on 25 Mar, 2011 01:08 PM
Appreciate that you added book chapters as their own thing, but
there is still an issue with them: if you go into the side panel to
enter information for a Book Chapter-type entry, you cannot add
very relevant information, such as Book Title or Publisher City. I
think this is a hold-over from the 2.0 way of doing things, when
Chapters were assumed to be integrated into the entries for
Books.
(FWIW, I noticed kep16823's comment about a way to link to a
separate book entry, but I am not getting that prompt in the
released version of 2.02 - my guess is this functionality was
dropped.)
Support Staff21 Posted by mek on 25 Mar, 2011 01:18 PM
> I think this is a hold-over from the 2.0 way of doing things, when Chapters were assumed to be integrated into the entries for Books.
That's correct indeed, we'll do our best to fix this in the next
update or the one after at the latest. I realize we also probably need
to add some custom behaviour for when a chapter is standalone vs when
it's part of a book.
22 Posted by Capital C Charles on 25 Mar, 2011 01:26 PM
That would be appreciated - still holding off on updating all of
my book chapters so that I don't have to edit them a second time,
and I assume others are doing the same thing.
@Capital Agreed, I migrate my library with each update to test
it out, but I'm not planning to commit on the full switch until
changing reference types is easier and bug free(ish). With tens of
thousands of entries I can't afford to spend time fixing these
things until it's simple.
I just added a thesis as a book and enjoy having it organized,
but it would be extremely useful to have it be searchable. I tried
and it never comes up. Am I doing it wrong or is it something that
comes in the future? If the latter, looking forward to it!
2 Posted by Josh Braun on 09 Mar, 2011 02:29 AM
There is support for book chapters, though the workflow isn't obvious. Book Chapter references must be created within book references. To do this, create a book entry, then in the right sidebar, click the "+" icon where it says "Chapters." This will create a blank chapter entry. Double click it, and the blank chapter entry will open. There you can add your chapter-level metadata and a PDF.
Currently chapters aren't fully searchable, and there are some other issues with adding them to collections and whatnot, but these are on the developers' radar, so hopefully they'll be cleaned up soon.
3 Posted by Charles on 09 Mar, 2011 03:12 PM
While I understand the way you are trying to manage book chapters, it doesn't necessarily work as intended. One issue I am having is that I already have a number of chapters in Papers (since it was a convenient place to keep them). There does not seem to be an easy way to change an existing entry (defaulted to a journal article) to a book chapter. I can change it to a book, recode the entry for the correct information for the book, and then add the chapter, but then I have the problem of the PDF being associated with the book, rather than the chapter. Plus, it has required me to do a lot of unnecessary coding. I like the idea of associating chapters with books, but it should be optional.
Support Staff 4 Posted by matias on 09 Mar, 2011 03:17 PM
Hi there
We've received a lot of feedback regarding the book chapter workflow in Papers2. You are not alone, we are going to improve on this in a future update.
Best wishes
Matias
5 Posted by Rob Buerki on 09 Mar, 2011 06:19 PM
Okay workflow is enormously convoluted and prone to messing things up. I think book chapters should be treated as individual documents from the same source. Currently it seems that the Book is a single document and any additional chapters are like supplemental PDFs.
Also -- why is there a separate field in the Book Chapter Edit dialogue for "publication"? When I entered the book title there, Papers automatically created a new "Journal" with the Book title!
Rather confused here....
6 Posted by talazem on 09 Mar, 2011 07:53 PM
Matias (or anyone else from Mekentosj):
In light of the fact that you're going to revisit book chapters, at this point do you even recommend anyone use this feature in the current 2.0 form? In other words, if presently I put chapters of an edited book under the title of a book, and you then update the software, might there be problems...is it better to just ignore this feature for now?
Support Staff 7 Posted by matias on 09 Mar, 2011 08:03 PM
Hi there
Just work as normal, we won't break any of the book chapter metadata that you create with 2.0, but strive to make it easier to understand and access.
Best
Matias
matias closed this discussion on 09 Mar, 2011 08:03 PM.
matias re-opened this discussion on 09 Mar, 2011 08:03 PM
8 Posted by talazem on 10 Mar, 2011 12:35 PM
If I import a bunch of book chapters, how do I convert them to be attached to a book collection from within Papers? Or do I have to manually attach them, one-by-one?
Support Staff 9 Posted by mek on 10 Mar, 2011 01:04 PM
This isn't possible yet but we obviously should make that an option, thanks for the feedback.
10 Posted by shaunlangley on 10 Mar, 2011 10:20 PM
I can't change the title of a chapter. For example, I added my book chapter, which it named "Chapter 1" automatically. However, the chapter is NOT chapter 1 and in fact I have no idea which number it is. It has a title though and that's what's important. I try to change the name by replacing the "Chapter 1" text, but when I click done, the changes are reverted back to the default title "Chapte 1". This is stupid.
Support Staff 11 Posted by mek on 10 Mar, 2011 10:23 PM
Hi Shaun,
Try clicking the arrow to the right next to the chapter it allows you
to view and edit the chapter.
Alex
12 Posted by shaunlangley on 10 Mar, 2011 10:25 PM
I did. This is where I run into the problem. I can't change the title of the chapter.
13 Posted by Segv on 11 Mar, 2011 03:37 AM
There also appears to be a bug where you click on the reveal arrow for Chapter 2, but it actually opens and edits the info for Chapter 1. I'm sure this will get fixed soon.
Support Staff 14 Posted by mek on 11 Mar, 2011 03:50 AM
Thanks for letting us know Segv, we'll fix it indeed.
Alex
15 Posted by Charles on 11 Mar, 2011 05:51 AM
I've had the problem Shaun is describing with articles, etc., as well as book chapters, and, in fact, it occurs in all fields. About 15% of the time, changing the title, author, etc., of an entry won't "stick" when you click "Done." The problem seems to be worst when attempting to delete the contents of a field without replace it with something else - the system wants there to be something in the field, so it keeps the old data that I just tried to delete.
16 Posted by januse72 on 16 Mar, 2011 04:43 AM
I just wanted to weigh in with my 2 cents about suggestions for updating how Book Chapters are used. I don't know how others use book chapters when reading and citing, but here's what I have. And it's probably very similar to others in psychological science.
I have lots of single chapters from books. I very seldom have multiple chapters from the same book. And the vast majority of time the chapter authors are not the same as the book authors (i.e. an edited volume). I treat my book chapters similarly to a journal article, just with the relevant citation information different. And very different from a book, which I normally only include for citation purposes--I don't have any full book PDFs.
So it would be helpful to have:
1) A separate section from Books called Book Chapters, as I treat these as very separate resources.
2) Ability to add all of the information needed to cite that chapter in the inspector. And the ability to search that information uniquely. And to export it uniquely.
3) A section under Sources called Books, which would list all of the books I have chapters in. Here I could find all of the chapters I might have from the same book, with the option to merge them (like in Journals) to share citation data, and view all the chapters from that book (in the inspector like for Authors).
This latter option of using Books within Sources, rather than having chapters within Books in the Library, would really be helpful to many people I think. Because I want to VIEW how my chapters are nested within books, not CREATE chapters nested within books.
17 Posted by Norman French on 21 Mar, 2011 03:14 AM
Just wanted to second what januse72 said. I would love it if I could just select "book chapter" under the "book" menu. This would be especially useful if the book titles would then auto-complete. Speaking of which, is there a plan to bring back author auto-complete? I now have a John Michael von Loen and a John Michael von Loën... very confusing.
18 Posted by kep16823 on 21 Mar, 2011 03:27 AM
It looks like this might be supported, or maybe will be soon? In the tutorial "All about metadata and matching", it appears that a "book chapter" type option exists - the tutorial adds a pdf of a book chapter, then goes to the publisher's website and imports the metadata. The type listed at the top of the metadata pane then changes from "book" to "book chapter". There is also a confirmation at the bottom of the metadata pane that asks whether the chapter is part of a book. Is this currently available in 2.0.1? It didn't work that way when I tried, but I also didn't have a book chapter whose metadata I could find on a publisher's website - maybe it only works if the metadata is imported in a certain format? Or is this a new feature that we will be seeing soon?
Support Staff 19 Posted by charles on 25 Mar, 2011 07:05 AM
Check out Papers 2.0.2. Here are all the release notes for Papers 2.0.2:
http://support.mekentosj.com/kb/release-notes/release-notes-for-pap...
Many thanks for your feedback!
charles closed this discussion on 25 Mar, 2011 07:05 AM.
charles re-opened this discussion on 25 Mar, 2011 07:05 AM
20 Posted by Capital C Charles on 25 Mar, 2011 01:08 PM
Appreciate that you added book chapters as their own thing, but there is still an issue with them: if you go into the side panel to enter information for a Book Chapter-type entry, you cannot add very relevant information, such as Book Title or Publisher City. I think this is a hold-over from the 2.0 way of doing things, when Chapters were assumed to be integrated into the entries for Books.
(FWIW, I noticed kep16823's comment about a way to link to a separate book entry, but I am not getting that prompt in the released version of 2.02 - my guess is this functionality was dropped.)
Support Staff 21 Posted by mek on 25 Mar, 2011 01:18 PM
> I think this is a hold-over from the 2.0 way of doing things, when Chapters were assumed to be integrated into the entries for Books.
That's correct indeed, we'll do our best to fix this in the next
update or the one after at the latest. I realize we also probably need
to add some custom behaviour for when a chapter is standalone vs when
it's part of a book.
22 Posted by Capital C Charles on 25 Mar, 2011 01:26 PM
That would be appreciated - still holding off on updating all of my book chapters so that I don't have to edit them a second time, and I assume others are doing the same thing.
23 Posted by januse72 on 25 Mar, 2011 01:46 PM
@Capital Agreed, I migrate my library with each update to test it out, but I'm not planning to commit on the full switch until changing reference types is easier and bug free(ish). With tens of thousands of entries I can't afford to spend time fixing these things until it's simple.
24 Posted by Glenn on 19 Apr, 2012 04:38 AM
I just added a thesis as a book and enjoy having it organized, but it would be extremely useful to have it be searchable. I tried and it never comes up. Am I doing it wrong or is it something that comes in the future? If the latter, looking forward to it!