Citations in Footnotes
James
UPDATE FROM MEKENTOSJ:
-
Papers 2.2.10 adds basic support for footnotes/endnotes, read more here: http://support.mekentosj.com/kb/release-notes/release-notes-for-pap... (Word 2004, 2008 and 2011)
-
The beta version Papers 2.2.23 adds further support for footnotes/endnotes, so that citations can be inserted into footnotes even for in-text styles: http://support.mekentosj.com/kb/how-to/how-to-sign-up-for-beta-vers... (Word 2011 only)
-
Read also the latest comments on this thread for a discussion on the feature and the limitations. Please give us your feedback to help us shape that into a great feature!
HI Papers,
I was just trying out the Papers 2.0 citation function using Word 2008 for Mac. I am having trouble getting the bibliographic information to appear in a footnote. If I click in the footnote and try to insert the citation from Papers, the citation shorthand in brackets appears in the body text and not in the footnote itself. Is there a way to make the citation appear in the footnote? When I format the bibliography it doesn't put it in the footnote.
Thanks,
James
Comments are currently closed for this discussion. You can start a new one.
32 Posted by Julian on 07 Nov, 2011 09:28 AM
Can you explain what the differences are between EndNote X5 and Papers 2? I don't know quite yet how I would combine these apps. I cannot longer wait for footnote support. This is getting too heavy for me. I have already waited for too long and inserted too many citations that still need to be inserted into footnotes and be edited. So I better find a solution for myself asap. I need a program today that can handle footnotes and wanted to know what I still need papers 2 for, when I get X5...
Support Staff 33 Posted by charles on 07 Nov, 2011 07:57 PM
@Julian We like to think that the main difference between EndNote and Papers is the attention to the user's workflow that we put into designing the app. In terms of features, and if you just at the list of features, there are really only minor differences. One thing Papers is better at outside of the UI is for example handling of supplemental files. One thing that EndNote is better at is in the actual output of bibliography, e.g. support for footnotes. Depending on each user, one is a better fit than the user, and the only way to figure that out is to try each and decide.
Note that you can use both papers and EndNote at the same time, because you can cite a paper using Papers's menu item Copy As... EndNote Temporary Citation. And later, when ready export all the cited papers to EndNote, which can then be used for the final formatting.
34 Posted by jonas on 13 Nov, 2011 01:07 PM
There is a serious need for improvement as I am also using footnotes frequently. Will there be any update in the near future?
Support Staff 35 Posted by charles on 14 Nov, 2011 12:08 AM
Hi Jonas,
I am sorry about that, but I really cannot promise anything in the near future, I am afraid. We have a number of features and improvements in the pipeline ahead of that one, though like I said, it's definitely something we hope to add at some point. Thanks for your patience again.
Best wishes,
Charles
Knowledge Base for Papers:
http://support.mekentosj.com/kb
charles closed this discussion on 14 Nov, 2011 12:08 AM.
Richard Happ re-opened this discussion on 16 Nov, 2011 10:07 PM
36 Posted by Richard Happ on 16 Nov, 2011 10:07 PM
That is very unfortunate. Writing legal papers, I am totally dependent on footnotes. Papers is useless for me without footnotes. I admit I had not even pondered the possibility that it would not support footnotes - for me completely unthinkable.
Please cancel my license and refund my money, also for the iPad app. Thank you!
Kind regards
Richard Happ
Support Staff 37 Posted by charles on 16 Nov, 2011 11:59 PM
@Richard I am really sorry the program did not work as expected from you. The refunds for the iOS app can only be handled by Apple, as they are the one managing the credit card and the payments. I wish we had a one-click button that would allow to accept refunds on our end too, but at the moment, Apple does not offer that option. However, they will likely honor the refund if you contact them directly.
38 Posted by Lydia on 17 Nov, 2011 11:12 AM
I, too, use footnotes not citations in the text and papers is useless for me without this feature, which is a shame because at first I thought it was the answer to all my problems...like Richard, it didn't occur to me that it wouldn't support footnotes, surely a must for many users...can you give any definite date when this feature may be added?
Support Staff 39 Posted by mek on 17 Nov, 2011 11:32 AM
Unfortunately we can't give definitive dates for any features I'm afraid. We'll do our best.
40 Posted by Navraj on 18 Nov, 2011 12:31 PM
Just one more plea for footnotes to be supported. For lawyers this is essential.
Tnx
41 Posted by Chris Twomey on 01 Dec, 2011 01:58 AM
And another plea for footnotes. I'm using Sente now, with much of the same functionality as Papers. I'd switched precisely b/c of that, and haven't re-upped my licence w/ you all. I would do so in an instant (i think your pdf management and viewing is better) if you had footnote support.
42 Posted by William Lamb on 01 Dec, 2011 10:31 AM
I've got the same problem. What a shame - I was hoping to ditch Endnote. Magic Mss is much faster; great work flow. Also, please support endnotes as well, if they are treated differently at all.
Will
43 Posted by Tosh on 15 Dec, 2011 11:34 PM
I just encountered this same problem while trying to add a citation in a footnote - as a legal student I am also entering my plea that this critical feature be added. While I understand that papers originally targeted the medical science community, adding this functionality will significantly expand your market.
44 Posted by Jonathan on 16 Dec, 2011 10:12 PM
Hi Everyone
Having a problem with Papers2 and the new update. No matter which citation format I seem to choose, I cannot get my in-paper citations listed as superscripts. I know the relevant formatting styles for these journals require/publish with superscripts, and I've selected them as such in Papers, but they're not changing anywhere in the text, and have remained as (1), (2), etc. Any ideas?
Thanks
Support Staff 45 Posted by charles on 17 Dec, 2011 06:55 AM
@Jonathan: could you please start a separate discussion for that issue? It is otherwise very hard for us to follow up. Also, this would be off-topic for the thread. Thanks!
charles closed this discussion on 17 Dec, 2011 06:55 AM.
o_h re-opened this discussion on 15 Feb, 2012 12:12 AM
46 Posted by o_h on 15 Feb, 2012 12:12 AM
Papers for WIN? what happened to focusing on mac? Why can't we have footnotes instead of a useless Windows version?! Grrrh.
Support Staff 47 Posted by mek on 15 Feb, 2012 12:26 AM
@o_h please calm down before jumping to conclusions, if you had read the accompanying blog post you would have noticed that the windows version of papers is being developed by the folks from Scimatic, it doesn't make us any less concentrated on Papers for Mac
48 Posted by o_h on 15 Feb, 2012 12:31 AM
Scimatic or not, some efforts (even if for writing the support pages) from mekentoj are involved. Mac version is still missing basic functionality from version 1. All efforts should be concentrated on bringing the mac version to full working condition first. Periods in abbreviations anyone?
Support Staff 49 Posted by charles on 15 Feb, 2012 12:41 AM
o_h: the simple way to put it is that if we had not released the Windows version today, the Mac version would still be at exactly the same stage. It's certainly frustrating when one specific feature or bug is affecting you more specifically, and we do care about all our users, but in real life, there are always priorities and compromises. The state of the app is the best we could make it, given our resources. And yes, it's not perfect, and no, we don't always make the right decision (in hindsight, we know where me messed up). For you, the Windows version is possibly 'useless', but for many more people, it's not. If we had announced support for footnotes, those same people might have called it 'useless'. It's a matter of perspective :-)
50 Posted by o_h on 15 Feb, 2012 12:58 AM
I wonder how many of your users have both macs and pcs? I would hazzard a guess that most of your current users have macs. By going out to prepare a windows version instead of perfecting the mac version you are very clearly showing a preference to grow your user base as opposed to supporting your current loyal users . If the windows version did not cause any trouble what so ever, why wasn't it offered in the past? The fact is that putting out a Windows version does detract from the Mac development.
And Mek agrees:
Re: My windows friends want Papers
Alas we indeed have no such plans, porting our programs to Windows would cost so much time it would not be feasible (especially because it makes use of many Apple provided developer parts that alone would cost a year to implement on Windows if not more). We rather spend our time on further developing our programs in even much more revolutionising ways.
<…>
mek
Administrator
Support Staff 51 Posted by charles on 15 Feb, 2012 01:29 AM
I think there is a misunderstanding, and I am sorry I was not clearer on the development constraints on Mac and Windows. For instance, I am a Mac developer. I have not written a single line of code for the Windows version, nor has any of the Mac/iOS devs on the team. It would have taken a lot of time and energy for any of us to do so, and this is what Alex indeed explains in this quote, not one word needs to be changed in there. We would never have done it ourselves. Scimatic did it, and for them, it was possible because they are experienced Windows developers (and very nice people I should add). This is why we are saying the Windows version has not really taken any time away from the Mac development.
I don't see how this is incompatible. In fact, the larger the user base, the more resources we can put on developing new features that will benefit current users as well. With 13 versions released in less than a year, and many improvements and features added, bugs fixed on a regular basis, I don't see how we are not also providing all we can to current users.
Finally, I should emphasize that if we did not add new users on a regular basis (and a paid upgrade once in a while, like we did after more than 3 years of Papers1), we would have to close shop very soon. We don't have magic investor money or government grants to support the development of Papers.
Charles
charles closed this discussion on 23 Feb, 2012 01:13 AM.
charles re-opened this discussion on 19 Mar, 2012 08:26 PM
Support Staff 52 Posted by charles on 19 Mar, 2012 08:26 PM
Hi all,
The latest beta of Papers 2.2 adds support for footnotes/endnotes in MS Word. You can read more about this release here: http://support.mekentosj.com/kb/release-notes/release-notes-for-pap...
Be sure to read more about the beta versions here as well before trying it: http://support.mekentosj.com/kb/how-to/how-to-sign-up-for-beta-vers...
Here is a quick summary of what that means. Please let us know what you think and what can be better (make sure you label your email / feedback with a clear title that mentions Papers2.2 beta5 and the word 'footnote'). Many thanks for your feedback!
53 Posted by Evan Schoenberg on 19 Mar, 2012 10:34 PM
Awesome. Thanks for adding this! I look forward to trying out the beta next I"m working on a paper.
54 Posted by o_h on 27 Mar, 2012 05:24 PM
yaay!!! thank you :) I love you again :)
55 Posted by David Goldman on 27 Mar, 2012 08:03 PM
I'm sorry, I haven't tried the beta yet (working on wrapping up a dissertation, and I mostly use Pages)—does this mean that you can only enter citations as footnotes?
What I mostly need is to be able to enter in-text citations within footnotes as well as within the body of the text. Right now I can enter a citation key in a footnote, but when I scan the document it won't be reformatted and it won't show up in the bibliography that's entered at the end of the document.
Adding a citation as a footnote is nice, but there's (what seems to me) more basic footnote scanning functionality that's all I really need…
Support Staff 56 Posted by charles on 27 Mar, 2012 08:24 PM
@David: great question, and indeed I need to clarify. At the moment, it's either in-text of footnote citations, but we don't support scanning for citations inside footnotes when using in-text citations. In addition, such support is only available in Word.
We do plan to eventually add support for scanning footnotes as well, but I am afraid you'll have to wait for such support....
57 Posted by David Goldman on 27 Mar, 2012 08:31 PM
Oh, dear! That's pretty disappointing, and frustrating. I was so excited when you announced footnote support. Apart from that strange limitation, magic manuscripts is exactly what I want in a reference manager.
From an end-user perspective, at least, it's bizarre to have scanning fail to reach into footnotes. (As I'm sure you know, in many academic disciplines—I'm in philosophy—sub-arguments and asides, which include citations, happen in footnotes a lot.)
Support Staff 58 Posted by charles on 27 Mar, 2012 08:36 PM
Thanks for your feedback again. Some of those things, we are not always fully aware, coming from a scientific (biology) background. This request definitely makes sense, and I would like to ask anybody on this discussion, with a similar need, to voice their concerns and tell us more about their workflow.
Some of the pieces we put in place could help us improve such support in a nearer future. I promise I'll have a closer look, though we have to do things one step at a time to make sure we get it right.